emydura
Well-Known Member
The first one is mine. It is actually in high bud at the moment. I will have to cross it with my druryi although they tend to flower at totally different times.
David
David
Paphiopedilum druryi
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David, your P. gratrixianum 'Geyserland' is fantastic!!!
It would really be interesting to see it crossed with a druryi.
yes, that's a very similar bloom. I think if it is druryii it comes from a very distinct population and I've never seen these before as druryii. It is very nice and maybe could even be a new species!! :wink:
Here is the result of my correspondence with the former owner of this plant, Willi Kenntner. He told me, that he got this plant from an German grower, who told him, that this plant is wild collected in the late 1970s or early 1980s by someone who is called "Mr. Mammen". Believe it or not ... So we don't know much more about it than before.
W. Kenntner said, he divided this plant at least one time, so the French plant is probably the same clone.
W. Kenntner said, he divided this plant at least one time, so the French plant is probably the same clone.
J
John Boy
Guest
Well, one thing's for sure! You do have a cool plant there. And though I've never heard of the guy, If Willi Kenntner says that sort of thing: that's how got to be the owner of that plant.
Even if it is (or would be) a Hybrid made in India: It's something very unique!
Even if it is (or would be) a Hybrid made in India: It's something very unique!
Leo Schordje
wilted blossom
I am working from memory, so if somebody has more details, or I am in error, please post the correct info.
In the late 1960's or early 1970's an avid orchidist by the name of Mammen lead an expedition to re-discover Paph druryii in the wild. By that time Paph druryii was rare in cultivation and most of the then known habitats had been destroyed or depleted by over collection. The 'Mammen Expedition" found and collected Paph druryii, some clones famous in the USA are from that expedition. I believe Paph druryii "The King" AM/AOS is from the Mamman expedition. If this plant, whose image started this thread is really supposed to be from the 'Mammen' expedition, then it in theory would be of the same geographic race or population as Paph druryii "The King". This claim I find rather unlikely. I could accept this plant as a 'collected' plant if it were from a distinctly separate geographic population. So the claim that this plant is from Mr. Mamman, actually makes it more unlikely that the provenance of the plant is true. Something is not correct. Either this plant is an artificial hybrid being passed off as druryii, or if it indeed is a collected from the wild plant, then the tale of it being from the Mamman Expedition is a wild yarn, told to increase the sale price. I am not saying Willi Kenntner is the one who spun the yarn, I am saying somebody told Mr Kenntner a whopper of a story to get him interested in a plant that clearly is not a good fit for druryii.
The truth is, there is no way to really sort this out. Anecdote is not a good substitute for facts. The phrase "I was told ..." in a provenance is not a solid fact, an old photo from the 1960's showing this plant, or an entry in the Mamman Expedition's accession log would be solid facts. Does anyone here know where the records of the Mamman Expedition were deposited? Perhaps at one of the Indian Universities. The accession log and herbarium specimens could shed some light, any Slipper Talkers visiting India in the near future? It could be an interesting project.
Enough time has passed between the "collection" of this plant (if indeed it was collected) that it is very likely some of the players involved have passed away. If someone knew where his nursery's records are, or if the notes from the expedition were deposited in a university archive, they might shed some light, but most likely this is not possible.
I was willing to accept this plant as a representative of a population that exists(or did exist at one time) somewhere in the wild. But I am quite skeptical that this plant was collected by Mamman, particularly the "Mammen Expedition".
And I would like to repeat, I am not accusing any one person of being deliberately untruthful, certainly not Mr Kenntner. I am saying that somewhere in the "chain of custody" of this plant somebody did invent a history for this plant, either willfully or by unintentionally mis-remembering the facts.
Leo, I agree with you. That's why I wrote "He told me ... who told him...".
But one is for sure: this plant was divided. One part lives in France and an other on my windowsill! And, as I told befor, I bought it in bud because of it's long stem and short leaves and in addition I got a wonderful flower!
But one is for sure: this plant was divided. One part lives in France and an other on my windowsill! And, as I told befor, I bought it in bud because of it's long stem and short leaves and in addition I got a wonderful flower!
D
Drorchid
Guest
Interesting info Leo! Thanks, and I totally agree with you. Does anyone know if there are still some populations of Paph. druryii left since the Mammen expedition, or are they totally extinct in the wild?
Robert
Robert
Leo Schordje
wilted blossom
definitely enjoy the plant for what it is. It is lovely. And, the mystery as to its 'true' identity may be an enjoyable puzzle to work on as time allows. I have had a few mystery plants over the years, and some I have actually been able to resolve with some certainty. It is a pretty flower, with good habit. And if you divide it and pass it on, pass on the story too, maybe someone else will figure it out in the future.
D
Drorchid
Guest
Never mind, I answered my own question. Here is a link to a webpage, of someone who took a picture of Paph. druryi in the wild (near Kerala, India) back in 2006, so apparently there are still some pockets of wild Paph. druryi left:
http://enchantingkerala.org/kerala-travelogues/agastyarkoodam-tour.php
Robert
http://enchantingkerala.org/kerala-travelogues/agastyarkoodam-tour.php
Robert
Cool, thanx for sharing Rob.
KyushuCalanthe
Just call me Tom
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Yes, thanks for sharing that Robert. Sounds like a wonderful place. It gladdens my heart to know that some wild areas yet exist - I forget that living in Japan!
Leo, I will do this for sure!
Ohh, have a look there and see, what I have found last Saturday night:
These pictures are from the website of the Swiss Orchid Society with their awards: http://www.orchideen.ch/Bewertung/v03-0309.htm
This afternoon I called the owner Mr. Gunzenhauser. He told me, that his mother got this plant with an import from India in the mid 1970's. But he don't know his name, wether he was a collector or a gardener, or anything else about him.
The Swiss plant looks very similar to mine, but I think it is different enough to be considered as a separate clone, but I'm even not sure about this...
These pictures are from the website of the Swiss Orchid Society with their awards: http://www.orchideen.ch/Bewertung/v03-0309.htm
This afternoon I called the owner Mr. Gunzenhauser. He told me, that his mother got this plant with an import from India in the mid 1970's. But he don't know his name, wether he was a collector or a gardener, or anything else about him.
The Swiss plant looks very similar to mine, but I think it is different enough to be considered as a separate clone, but I'm even not sure about this...
P
paworsport
Guest
Hi
look very similar to your druryi ! beautifull plant !
look very similar to your druryi ! beautifull plant !
P
paphjoint
Guest
Interesting thread back from 2007
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11022
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11022
K
Kavanaru
Guest
Ohh, have a look there and see, what I have found last Saturday night:
These pictures are from the website of the Swiss Orchid Society with their awards: http://www.orchideen.ch/Bewertung/v03-0309.htm
This afternoon I called the owner Mr. Gunzenhauser. He told me, that his mother got this plant with an import from India in the mid 1970's. But he don't know his name, wether he was a collector or a gardener, or anything else about him.
The Swiss plant looks very similar to mine, but I think it is different enough to be considered as a separate clone, but I'm even not sure about this...
Interesting plant... I have never seen it at Gunzenhauser's. I go pretty often to visit him and his amazing collection, and spend long time discussing with him about Paphies (have learned a lot from him! and also have some plants from him too). Need to check for this plant next time...
